Discussion:
Service
(too old to reply)
Jim Scott
2005-02-25 11:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Had to ring the helpline re-large emails. Did you know that the upper limit
for an email is 3.5 Mb INCLUDING the mail headers. So a 3 Mb attachment
just exceeds this.
However he was telling me that the server failure of Tuesday dragged down
the 24/7 service and the newsgroup service. It is NOT fixed, but they have
re-routed it in the meanwhile while work goes on.
--
Jim on Tyneside UK
Remove X to email me.
http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/
anon
2005-02-27 15:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Jim, I got confirmation that the same applies to their ADSL contracts, its
this and decaying reliability that causes be to run two dial up accounts
with the other (pipex) used for incoming email by default as its given much
less hassle.
Their suggestion for larger emails :

"Unfortunately the 3.5MB limit is for all virgin.net accounts including the
broadband accounts.
You could use third party websites such as www.yousendit.com or
www.mail2web.com. These are unsupported and not maintained by virgin.net.
If you have any other queries, don't hesitate to contact me again."

So it looks like Virgin Broadband does not help much, twice a year I need to
send emails bigger than 3.5M and used to be able to use Virgin before they
cut back the service offered to customers. Shame that a maturing business is
offering less service than it used to and what it does still offer is now
less reliable, Is this how a company survives long term ? I doubt it.
Post by Jim Scott
Had to ring the helpline re-large emails. Did you know that the upper limit
for an email is 3.5 Mb INCLUDING the mail headers. So a 3 Mb attachment
just exceeds this.
However he was telling me that the server failure of Tuesday dragged down
the 24/7 service and the newsgroup service. It is NOT fixed, but they have
re-routed it in the meanwhile while work goes on.
--
Jim on Tyneside UK
Remove X to email me.
http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/
YoBo
2005-02-27 20:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by anon
So it looks like Virgin Broadband does not help much, twice a year I need to
send emails bigger than 3.5M and used to be able to use Virgin before they
cut back the service offered to customers.
You could always post the file to your webspace and email the URL to the
intended recipient and let them fetch it themselves. Maybe a bit of a
'workaround' but it does the job.

I have had in the past sent a file that Virgin accepted for size only to
have it bounced back as the recipient's ISP refused to accept it as *they*
considered it too large.

YoBo
Jim Scott
2005-02-27 21:09:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by YoBo
Post by anon
So it looks like Virgin Broadband does not help much, twice a year I need to
send emails bigger than 3.5M and used to be able to use Virgin before they
cut back the service offered to customers.
You could always post the file to your webspace and email the URL to the
intended recipient and let them fetch it themselves. Maybe a bit of a
'workaround' but it does the job.
I have had in the past sent a file that Virgin accepted for size only to
have it bounced back as the recipient's ISP refused to accept it as *they*
considered it too large.
YoBo
The problem is folk posting to me. They are not up to tricky dickie things.
--
Jim on Tyneside UK
Remove X to email me.
http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/
anon
2005-02-27 22:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Snap, I want to send large files to a small Print Shop and its got to be
very, very simple for them, if they have problems I don't get my printing
done in time. It would be fine if they were a large organisation trained to
handle FTP etc but alas not. It's good to see other folk talking about
similar problems, that should be one step towards things getting fixed
(apologies for this naive fit of optimism, I'll wake up and remember I'm
British).
Post by Jim Scott
Post by YoBo
Post by anon
So it looks like Virgin Broadband does not help much, twice a year I
need
Post by Jim Scott
Post by YoBo
Post by anon
to
send emails bigger than 3.5M and used to be able to use Virgin before they
cut back the service offered to customers.
You could always post the file to your webspace and email the URL to the
intended recipient and let them fetch it themselves. Maybe a bit of a
'workaround' but it does the job.
I have had in the past sent a file that Virgin accepted for size only to
have it bounced back as the recipient's ISP refused to accept it as *they*
considered it too large.
YoBo
The problem is folk posting to me. They are not up to tricky dickie things.
--
Jim on Tyneside UK
Remove X to email me.
http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/
YoBo
2005-02-28 10:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by anon
Snap, I want to send large files to a small Print Shop and its got to be
very, very simple for them, if they have problems I don't get my printing
done in time. It would be fine if they were a large organisation trained to
handle FTP etc but alas not. It's good to see other folk talking about
similar problems, that should be one step towards things getting fixed
(apologies for this naive fit of optimism, I'll wake up and remember I'm
British).
Not normally one to defend the corporations of the world I do feel a sense
of disagreement with the general feelings shown thus far.

Email is, in my view, comparable to the standard letter mail service. What
you seem to want to do is load the postman down with ruddy great heavy
parcels. He will not last long if everybody puts that load on him. It's not
what he was intended for.

Maybe what we need is a form of parcel service. Where you just point to the
file and it is uploaded, an email with the link sent and the recipient's
system then offers the choice to fetch it. I think some photo repository
sites work in a similar way but I have never used one to be sure.

Would that save any bandwidth/resources? Maybe not but it would allow
letters and parcels to be separated.

YoBo
anon
2005-02-28 14:09:57 UTC
Permalink
Yobo, sorry but cannot agree with you at all. For a start the solutions
suggested by Virgin mean passing email addresses & contents to third parties
which Virgin specifically point out that they will accept no responsibility
for.

Virgin have gone down the old British solution of not actually saying WHY
they reduced the maximum email size, customers making excuses for a supplier
degrading what you are paying for is not reasonable (but very British), the
cost to Virgin of providing the service will have fallen. They have not
reduced the cost to the customer when they pulled the service. Analogies to
postmen have little relevance other than the customer cost of a service
increasing when it should be decreasing. The original penny black stamp cost
about 13p in today's money, the post office for generations did not have to
answer to customers and despite postcodes, automation and grossly reducing
customer deliveries etc we will be paying 30p for a 1st class stamp in a few
weeks.

If virgin did hit a problem (storage ?) a year or so ago then they should
have firstly spoken to customers and secondly provided some service to deal
with these things The cost of hardware to store email is low - Google will
store 1GB for you free of charge and offset costs with advertising. For
Virgin to leave customers to hang, to have them left to invent possible
explanations is frankly bizarre but is all too typical of large UK
businesses and why they ultimately fail in the market. Too many UK companies
(not to mention the civil service) are hidebound by a self serving
bureaucracy which does not understand or care about customers. They think
that customers don't understand what they want and should be told. One
famous example was that early post WW2 UK cars only had a external lock on
the drivers door, when they exported them to the USA they kept the lock on
the right hand door. Not surprisingly there were few customers in the US who
wanted to enter the car via the passenger door. The attitude of the UK
companies stank, arrogance and ignorance did not stop them going out of
business.

The UK ISP business is rather hidebound and its reasonable to suppose that a
large number of those now in the business will fail, the reasons they fail
will look no better than the reasons the UK car industry collapsed when
viewed from the future.

Cutting service and not talking to customers is a pretty good marker that a
company is heading for big problems and I would speculate already in trouble
right now. At the start of this thread it was said they had not actually
fixed a server failure after almost a week, this says a lot, can they not
afford a few more blade serves, hard drives or whatever?
Post by YoBo
Post by anon
Snap, I want to send large files to a small Print Shop and its got to be
very, very simple for them, if they have problems I don't get my printing
done in time. It would be fine if they were a large organisation trained to
handle FTP etc but alas not. It's good to see other folk talking about
similar problems, that should be one step towards things getting fixed
(apologies for this naive fit of optimism, I'll wake up and remember I'm
British).
Not normally one to defend the corporations of the world I do feel a sense
of disagreement with the general feelings shown thus far.
Email is, in my view, comparable to the standard letter mail service. What
you seem to want to do is load the postman down with ruddy great heavy
parcels. He will not last long if everybody puts that load on him. It's not
what he was intended for.
Maybe what we need is a form of parcel service. Where you just point to the
file and it is uploaded, an email with the link sent and the recipient's
system then offers the choice to fetch it. I think some photo repository
sites work in a similar way but I have never used one to be sure.
Would that save any bandwidth/resources? Maybe not but it would allow
letters and parcels to be separated.
YoBo
YoBo
2005-02-28 15:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by anon
Yobo, sorry but cannot agree with you at all. For a start the solutions
suggested by Virgin mean passing email addresses & contents to third parties
which Virgin specifically point out that they will accept no
responsibility
for.
Hmmm... I hope I have been of help in at least providing you the opportunity
to vent some of your anger. :-)

I was not defending Virgin. I was merely pondering whether email was the
correct vehicle for transporting large attachments. Things start out as one
thing and over time features get tagged on to it until it is being asked to
do what the original specification never dreamed of. Sometimes it is better
to go back to basics and build a new solution rather than keep trying to fix
the old one. I don't know what solutions Virgin offered you so cannot
comment on those. I have experienced in the past Virgin accepting a large
attachment only for it to be bounced by the recipients ISP as they
considered it too large. So it is not a problem specific to Virgin.

Re: the recent problems with Virgin. I did read somewhere that it was not
totally their problem but a wider problem with NTL. I guess (I don't know)
that Virgin acts as a reseller for services that are, in reality, provided
by others. They should be in a position to bring great pressure to bear on
them though. Virgin are terrible in letting their customers know what is
going on. That is bad. This is supposed to be a communication medium after
all.

I could be displaying the 'British tolerance'. It is more likely that I am
not world aware enough to know what other providers errr.... provide. I
could throw back at you that while you are so obviously dissatisfied with
the service, you continue to use and pay for it. That too could be classed
as 'British tolerance'. Virgin are, I believe, one of the few ISPs that do
not tie you into a 12 month contract.

I hope you do find a solution. Luckily for my needs on the odd occasions I
do want to transfer a large file to someone it has, to date, been practical
for them to fetch it via a URL to my webspace. No doubt the day will come
when it isn't and I'll be cursing along with the best of them.

Regards,

YoBo
anon
2005-02-28 16:41:15 UTC
Permalink
I plead guilty to letting my annoyance with Virgin run too long, part of the
issue was they were such a refreshing change when I joined them a number of
years ago !

I've worked in a consultancy designing equipment for telecom providers etc
and get hugely frustrated that the commercial pressures in the international
market just don't reflect in what's delivered to the UK customer, better not
start that rant again so apologies.

Your web solution may be a way to solve the problem if I accept that large
emails are out, I've got over 100MB with various domain hosts so thanks for
the thought. You will see Virgin's suggestions further up the thread.

Regards
Post by YoBo
Post by anon
Yobo, sorry but cannot agree with you at all. For a start the solutions
suggested by Virgin mean passing email addresses & contents to third parties
which Virgin specifically point out that they will accept no
responsibility
for.
Hmmm... I hope I have been of help in at least providing you the opportunity
to vent some of your anger. :-)
I was not defending Virgin. I was merely pondering whether email was the
correct vehicle for transporting large attachments. Things start out as one
thing and over time features get tagged on to it until it is being asked to
do what the original specification never dreamed of. Sometimes it is better
to go back to basics and build a new solution rather than keep trying to fix
the old one. I don't know what solutions Virgin offered you so cannot
comment on those. I have experienced in the past Virgin accepting a large
attachment only for it to be bounced by the recipients ISP as they
considered it too large. So it is not a problem specific to Virgin.
Re: the recent problems with Virgin. I did read somewhere that it was not
totally their problem but a wider problem with NTL. I guess (I don't know)
that Virgin acts as a reseller for services that are, in reality, provided
by others. They should be in a position to bring great pressure to bear on
them though. Virgin are terrible in letting their customers know what is
going on. That is bad. This is supposed to be a communication medium after
all.
I could be displaying the 'British tolerance'. It is more likely that I am
not world aware enough to know what other providers errr.... provide. I
could throw back at you that while you are so obviously dissatisfied with
the service, you continue to use and pay for it. That too could be classed
as 'British tolerance'. Virgin are, I believe, one of the few ISPs that do
not tie you into a 12 month contract.
I hope you do find a solution. Luckily for my needs on the odd occasions I
do want to transfer a large file to someone it has, to date, been practical
for them to fetch it via a URL to my webspace. No doubt the day will come
when it isn't and I'll be cursing along with the best of them.
Regards,
YoBo
John Cletheroe
2005-02-28 18:32:47 UTC
Permalink
To expect to transmit email attachments of over 1MB on a regular ISP
service is ludicrous. Anybody who wants to do that should be made to pay
more for such a service, or find an alternative such as web site hosting.

Just my 2c!

John
just me
2005-02-28 19:10:42 UTC
Permalink
i occasionally want to send a large photograph in high quality to
family members with a view to them getting them printed at their end.
3.5 meg doesnt quite hack the quality of my camera output images, i
need to reduce them to send them. this is broadband, if we were on the
lowest band paying for 3gb of data a month, surely it should be the
choice of the user as to size. 5 meg would be more acceptable.

of more concern to me is the lack of information coming from virgin.
newsgroup access has been up the shitter for over a week. repeated
email to the help and support centre over the last 6 days have gone
unanswered. why have support emails if they are not replied to?
alternatively i could ring (and pay) the helpline phone number, Point
is, I shouldn't have to.

this is a link to a free (thats FREE) email service that allows 10 meg
files. that should help those that are struggling with the 3.5 issue.

funny isn't it, you pay for your broadband but send your big emails
via a third party.

anyway, heres the link

http://manchester.mail.everyone.net/email/scripts/loginuser.pl
anon
2005-02-28 20:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Let me see how I can explain this from my perspective:

A supplier has reduced the service to customers without notice, explanation
or justification while maintaining the price (while his cost base decays).

Customers then leap to defend the supplier and feel the need to invent
possible explanations and justifications for the vendor.

Why don't they rename the service "Virgin Classic ISP" and bang the price up
a bit to make everyone really happy and proud to be British.
Post by John Cletheroe
To expect to transmit email attachments of over 1MB on a regular ISP
service is ludicrous. Anybody who wants to do that should be made to pay
more for such a service, or find an alternative such as web site hosting.
Just my 2c!
John
John Cletheroe
2005-03-01 10:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Do any other ISP's allow gigantic email attachments?

John
Brendon
2005-03-01 19:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Cletheroe
Do any other ISP's allow gigantic email attachments?
John
I don't have a limit on my new zealand account (www.ihug.co.nz) as far
as I am aware.

Brendon

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